Candidates assignment postings

amandab672

After reading both of the above excerpts from wikipedia, the reality is that it depends on your religion as to whether or not there are angels or demons. I feel that each individual or religious sect has their own beliefs weather it be what was passed down through family or folklore.

My views are as I have stated previously and I am not quite sure what I believe. In doing this research, it has not changed my point of view as to whether or not I believe or don't believe. I am one that needs solid proof of something before I have a belief in it and I do not go by what others think or say or what is written. If I see one or the other, it may change my view. Just as with the paranormal, there are skeptics and they become believers once something has happened to change that point of view.

I am sorry if this is not what you were expecting from me, but I am a bit of a skeptic and like I said previously, there has to be proof and not what others have experienced or folklore or stories.

Paulybadboy

Good start, but you have a long way to go. even a skeptic has reasons to be a skeptic...............don't make the assignment harder than it is, but you must follow the guidelines. if you don't believe in demons, show us reasons as to why..where do they came from.
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amandab672

I am a skeptic because I have never witnessed either one. Like I have said in other posts, I will believe in something when it happens to me. To me it is like ghosts and goblins and monsters and such. You don't believe in things unless you witness something for yourself, but there are others out there that believe everything the read and hear. I am not one of those people. I am a skeptic when it comes to a lot of things, even skeptical about what you told me the first night we met about my grandmother being right there beside me. I would like to believe it, but unless I have some definate proof, this is how I feel. This is the reason why I don't believe, because I am a skeptic and I don't know what else you want to hear from me. I have never had something happen in my life to believe that there is an angel with me and I have never had something happen to where there were demons present, so I do not know what to tell you Sad

All I have is what I have read and that to me is the opinions of other people not necessarily fact. Please Paul, if there is something in particular you are looking for me to say, then I guess I need it spelled out. Sad

amandab672

From a skeptics point of view.............

Angelology and Biblical Skepticism
Peter S. Williams (BA, MA)
Norwich University, England
P.Williams@uea.ac.uk

"There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them." C.S.Lewis.

The existence of Angels and Demons, which we may define as non-divine supernatural beings, is not a subject commonly tackled by Christian Apologists. Indeed, it is a subject remarkable in its absence from the writings of present-day defenders of the faith. I find this a curious situation.

I would have thought that the average non-believer who reads the Bible would find in the numerous Biblical references to Angels and Demons a considerable stumbling block to the credibility of Scripture, and hence Christianity. The same is certainly true of miracles. Naturalistic assumptions need to be challenged if Biblical accounts of miracles are not to be dismissed out of hand as impossible. The existence of Angels and Demons is surely a parallel case. However, while the topic of miracles has received excellent and extensive coverage, Angels and Demons have more often than not been brushed under the carpet.

In this paper I will not consider the Biblical distinction between those non-divine supernatural beings who serve the Kingdom of God and are called Angels, and those fallen Angels who do not serve the Kingdom and are called Demons. Nor will I consider the question of hierarchy among such beings. Rather, I will focus upon the apologetic issues that arise from the Biblical references to non-divine supernatural agents per se.
THE CONTEXT OF DOUBT

Would it be right to take the Biblical references to Angels and Demons as grounds to doubt the authority of the Bible or the truth of Christianity? It would certainly not be grounds for skepticism as to the general historical reliability of the Bible. If it were concluded that Angels and Demons are poetic embellishments of historical records, this would not entail that the rest of the Biblical accounts were not intended, or were not reliable, as historical reports.

Perhaps these out-of-the-ordinary phenomena which the Bible calls Angels and Demons can be given a psychological explanation. Perhaps some instances of New Testament Demon possession are a non-scientific way of referring to mental illness. The fact that Jesus cured people of certain obvious symptoms is in no way denied if we insist on mentally translating Demon possession as psychological disorder.

It may be that some Biblical references to Angels and Demons can be interpreted along the lines presented by Theologian Walter Wink, who suggests that we can reinterpret [the powers]. . . as symbolic of the withinness of institutions, structures, and systems. In other words, Wink regards Angels and Demons as symbols for the spirituality of actual entities in the real world. While this interpretation denies the objective in re existence of finite supernatural agents, it posits an inter-subjective in intellectu existence for spiritual forces that operate independent of any individual, human or Divine.

An inter-subjective in intellectu interpretation seems to me to be a legitimate reading of the authorities and powers of this dark world mentioned by Paul in Ephesians 6:12. However, a distinction would seem to flow from the text between the powers of this dark world and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore, while Winks withinness may have a legitimate place in Christian thought about spiritual forces, it should not be adopted as a universal interpretive device (Indeed, one can imagine religious non-realists taking up Winks views and applying them to God Himself).

However, some (although certainly not all) Biblical references to Angels and Demons are read most naturally as intending the ascription of particular actions to literal beings of a non-divine, but supernatural kind. If we find passages which clearly intend, and demand, the literal, in re existence of Angels or Demons, then this would be grounds for skepticism about the historical reliability and revelatory character of that passage, given that we have reason to doubt the in re existence of such beings. Two crucial questions therefore present themselves for our consideration.

The first question is whether the Bible anywhere intends and demands to be read as referring to the in re existence of literal Angels or Demons, in the sense of finite supernatural people. If not, then our problem is dissolved. This is a question for literary criticism that I will not go into here. In my own opinion however, at least some Biblical references to finite supernatural beings are best taken literally.

The second question, which need only be asked if the answer to our first question is positive, is whether we have any reason to doubt the existence of non-divine supernatural beings. Biblical skepticism would require a positive answer to both questions.
REASONS FOR DOUBT

I can think of two reasons to doubt the literal existence of finite supernatural beings. The first (which is compatible with Christian faith) is that Biblical accounts of such beings are metaphorical, or can legitimately be read as such, and that the in re existence of Angels and Demons is therefore an unnecessary hypothesis which we should do without in the name of simplicity. This is an application of Occams famous metaphysical Razor. The second reason (which is not compatible with Christian faith) is based on the presupposition of naturalism, which would exclude the existence of anything supernatural or incorporeal, such as the human soul or mind, or God. If naturalism is rejected it seems that we have no good reason to think that the existence of Angels and Demons is impossible.

If God exists then naturalism is false, and we therefore have little or no a prior reason to doubt the possibility of there existing finite spiritual beings. To justify such a doubt would require some argument to the effect that God could not create finite supernatural agents. The prime question for the skeptical non-theist is therefore whether or not God exists, while the prime question for the Biblically skeptical Theist is whether the Bible requires belief in literal Angels and Demons.
BIBLICAL REASONS FOR BELIEF

For the Christian, the primary reason for belief in Angels and Demons is trust in the Bible coupled with the conviction that at least some Biblical accounts of these creatures demand to be read literally. A look at any Bible Concordance will reveal that a Bible without any references to Angels or Demons would be a book in tatters; but the judgement as to which, if any, of these references require literal interpretation remains.

It need not be an exercise in begging-the-question to argue from the Bible to the truth of some particular Biblical assertion, such as the literal existence of Angels and Demons, which is being treated as reason to doubt the Bible. For example, arguments from verified historical and textual reliability, fulfilled Prophecy, and the Bibles spiritual influence all include premises drawn from the Bible combined with premises based upon extra-Biblical data to conclude that the Bible is a reliable, authoritative disclosure of the Word of God. Then there is the argument for Jesus Divinity and stamp of authority on the writings of the apostles from the Bible considered purely as a reliable source of historical data. These arguments can be balanced against the proposal that Biblical accounts of Angels and Demons not only demand to be taken literally, but constitute reason to doubt the Bible. If the pro-Bible arguments provide sufficient (or more than sufficient) evidence to cancel out the incredulity caused by the Biblical texts taken to require the literal existence of Angels and/or Demons, then apologetics will have rendered a valuable service to the skeptic. However, there are other reasons for belief that do not take any premises from the Bible. I will present these arguments in what I take to be an ascending order of merit.
EXTRA-BIBLICAL REASONS FOR BELIEF

1. The Argument from Common Consent:

Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Pagan and New Age believers all recognize the literal in re existence of finite supernatural agents. This means that up to around 60% of the current world population believe in the existence of finite spirit beings.

Historically belief in Angels and Demons has been a constant factor across many different cultures. A straw poll of what G.K.Chesterton called the democracy of the dead would find overwhelming support for the existence of Angels and Demons. As Carl Sagan wrote in The Demon-Haunted World, Despite successive waves of rationalist, Persian, Jewish, Christian and Muslim world views, despite revolutionary social, political and philosophical ferment, the existence, much of the character, and even the name of demons remained unchanged from Hesiod to the Crusades.

Either this majority is right, or deluded. If it is less plausible to believe that they are deluded than that they are correct, it is more plausible to believe that they are correct, and that Angels and Demons exist.

2. The Argument from Authority:

Belief in the in re existence of finite supernatural personal beings is not restricted to uneducated, unsophisticated medieval peasants. The list of intellectual believers includes the following names: Thomas Aquinas, Augustine, Aristotle, Athanasius, Bonaventura, John Calvin, Clement of Alexandrea, Wayne Grudem, C.S.Lewis, Martin Luther, John Locke, Walter Martin, Paul Meier, Thomas More, John Milton, Josh McDowell, St. Paul, Plotinus, Philo of Alexandrea, Pseudo-Dionysis, Socrates and Don Stewart.

3. The Argument from Extrapolation:

A mode of scientific thought that has paid great dividends is extrapolation. For example, Mendeleyevs periodic table was based on the symmetrical arrangement of known elements by their properties. The resulting table contained several blanks. It was eventually possible to fill in these blanks as new elements were discovered. The blanks predicted that there were other elements to be discovered. Realizing that our own existence introduces a new phenomena of sentience into the universe, we naturally conclude that the limited instantiation this phenomena finds in the human species cannot be the only example of its kind, for once we believe that the world was created by an infinite God, we are struck by the huge gap between the two extremes of mental power exemplified by humanity and God. Considering the pattern of successively higher orders of existence, from subatomic particles to God, we see every possible level occupied except the gap between God and humanity, and reasonably conclude that there must exist some order of being intermediate between these two.

God is pure incorporeal, infinite spirit (essentially that is, the Incarnation requires a small qualification upon this proposition). Humans, who are finite, are both material and spiritual. There certainly seems to be a tailor-made gap for some sort of beings who are spiritual, like God, but finite, like us. As John Locke argued in his Essay Concerning Human Understanding, "That there should be more species of intelligent creatures above us than there are of sensible and material below us, is probable to me from hence: that in all the visible corporeal world, we see no chasms or gaps." (3.6.12) Once again, the nub of the issue is belief in the existence of God. Once Gods existence is granted, belief in the existence of Angels and Demons becomes, if not necessary, then at least reasonable.

4. The Argument from Experience:

Here is a powerful example of Demon possession given by Christian Psychologist and Pastor David Instone Brewer:

I once went to interview a patient but found that he was asleep. He was lying on his bed, facing the wall, and he did not turn around or respond when in walked in. I sat in his room for a while thinking that he might wake up, and after a while in thought in might pray for him. I started to pray silently for him but in was immediately interrupted because he sat bolt upright, looked at me fiercely and said in a voice which was not characteristic of him: leave him alone - he belongs to us.

Startled, I wasnt sure how to respond, so we just sat and stared at each other for a while. Then I remembered my fundamentalist past and decided to pray silently against what appeared to be an evil spirit. . . because I was aware than an hysterical disorder could mimic demon possession. If the person felt that in was treating them as if they were possessed, this would exacerbate the condition and confirm in his mind that he really was possessed. I also prayed silently in case in was making a fool of myself. I cant remember exactly what I prayed but probably rebuked the spirit in the name of Jesus. Immediately I did so, I got another very hostile outburst along the same lines. . . I realised then that I was in very deep water and continued to pray, though still silently.

An onlooker would have seen a kind of one-sided conversation. I prayed silently and the person retorted very loudly and emphatically. Eventually (I cant remember what was said or what I prayed) the person cried out with a scream and collapsed on his bed. He woke up a little later, unaware of what had happened. I was still trying to act the role of a medic, so I did not tell him anything about what had happened. His behaviour after waking was quite striking in its normality. He no longer heard any of the oppressive voices which had been making him feel cut off and depressed, and his suicidal urges had gone.

Several factors impress me about the above account. David Brewer, who is now a research Librarian at Tyndale House, Cambridge, is a trained Psychologist who, until this event took place, felt "fairly satisfied that the Gospel accounts of demonization can be dealt with in terms of modern psychiatry or medicine" His account is presented, "with much hesitation, because I recognize the dubious value of anecdotal evidence, and also because I realize that they sound very unreasonable in this modern age." Mr Brewer is careful to distinguish between what he can and cant remember, and his report bears all the marks of a trained observer giving a careful account of something surprising. He wasnt expecting these events. Nor does he leap to conclusions:

I have personally been persuaded away from [a skeptical viewpoint] by a series of events which occurred while in was studying psychiatry, and during my time in pastoral work. . . When I was dealing with the strange personalities which spoke out of [a] person I was always careful to speak silently, even if the person appeared to be asleep. If these personalities were part of a multiple personality syndrome or an hysterical reaction, it would have been counter-productive to speak out loud anything which might make him believe that these personalities were distinct from himself.

These voices answered specific questions such as What is your name?, When did you come? This gradually convinced me that I was not dealing with a purely psychiatric disorder. After such conversations, which often involved much shouting, rage and abuse. . . the person usually had no memory of any of these disturbing events.

I think we may quickly dismiss the suggestion that Mr Brewer is lying: it is intuitively obvious that he is telling us things pretty much as he believes they happened, and that his experience finds corroboration in the experience of other educated and rational people:

Reading back to myself what in have written above, it seems like the rambling of a rabid fundamentalist or the paranoia of someone who needs urgent psychiatric help. I can only invite you to assess this in the way in which in present it - as a report of experiences which in have been reluctant to air in public in case they provoke ridicule or condemnation. I have heard similar stories (though not in such detail) from other ministers who are also reluctant to mention such things in public.

Personally, I am prepared to take Mr Brewer at his word. Given that Mr Brewers experiences cannot easily be given a naturalistic explanation (and if one were possible it seems likely that Mr Brewer would have preferred it) then a supernatural interpretation, as the only available alternative, becomes a plausible response to this testimony.

Taken together, I think the above arguments provide sufficient reason to conclude that the Christian who affirms belief in . . .one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible. . ., (my emphasis) conceiving as they do so the in re existence of non-divine supernatural agents, has in no way stepped beyond the limits of reasonable credulity.
CONCLUSION

It would seem that once naturalism is abandoned, sufficient reason can be provided to demonstrate the rationality of belief in the in re existence of finite supernatural agents, and hence that Biblical references to Angels and Demons cannot justify a skeptical attitude towards the Bible or Christian belief.

The Christian can argue from the Bible to belief in finite spirit beings without begging-the-question in favor of the Bible, by amassing sufficient evidence for the Bibles authority to undercut the proposed defeater based upon the Biblical accounts of Angels and Demons. There are also several extra-Biblical arguments that can be brought to bear on this possible barrier to belief.

None of the above arguments for belief in literal finite spirit beings seem to me to be so strong that everyone who rejects the in re existence of finite spirit beings, even with a full knowledge of the arguments, could be accused of irrationality (or even heresy). Nevertheless, in my estimation they make belief in Angels and Demons a reasonable proposition, especially for the Christian Theist who accepts the Bible as Gods Word.

The crucial question for Christian belief in Angels and Demons is whether the Bible demands to be read as requiring the in re existence of finite spirit beings. If we conclude that it does (and I believe that in places it does), there would seem to be no reason to shy away from this a belief that would not also force us to abandon belief in God. In other words, once God is accepted, there is insufficient reason to reject the possibility that Angels and Demons exist, and sufficient reason to accept their existence.

http://www.leaderu.com/theology/williams_angel.html

angel

An angel is a bodiless, immortal spirit, limited in knowledge and power. God created angels to worship Him. Not all God's angels acted angelically, however. Some angels, led by Satan, rebelled against a life of submission, and were cast out of Heaven. These bad angels were sent to Hell and are known as devils.

Not all angels are created equal. From top to bottom, the celestial hierarchy includes seraphim, cherubim, thrones; dominions, virtues, powers; principalities, archangels, and angels. Angels have different functions. Some do nothing but worship their Lord. Others are sent to deliver messages to creatures on earth. Some are sent as protectors of earthlings. Still others are sent to do battle with devils, who are viewed as initiators of evil temptations.

Even though angels are spirits and devoid of a physical nature, believers in angels have had no problem depicting and describing them. Angels,Photo by Robert T. Carroll say their advocates, are invisible but can take the form of visible things. Angels are usually depicted with wings and looking like human adults or children. The wings are undoubtedly related to their work as messengers from God, who lives in the sky. The anthropomorphizing is understandable. Depiction enhances belief. But a bodiless creature cannot be depicted. A depiction of a creature of less than human stature would be undignified and unworthy of celestial creatures. Nevertheless, it is puzzling how a bodiless creature thinks and feels. To talk of a spirit as a non-bodily creature seems to be akin to talking of a "round square." Trying to imagine thinking or feeling occurring independently of a body is like trying to imagine the spherical shape of a ball occurring independently of the ball.

Since angels are invisible but capable of taking on visible forms, it is understandable that there have been many "sightings." Literally anything could be an angel and any experience could be an angel-experience. The existence of angels cannot be disproved. The down side of this tidy picture is that angels cannot be proved to exist, either. Everything that could be an angel could be something else. Every experience that could be due to an angel could be due to something else. Belief in angels, angel sightings and angel experiences is entirely a matter of faith.

Even if they exist only in the imagination, however, angels can be very useful. They can serve as monitors of behavior and protectors of children. A parent can try to control a child's behavior by convincing the child that an angel is always watching over him or her. The angel is presented as being a kind of guardian, but the child will hopefully realize that the angel is also keeping track of all deeds, good and bad, even those done when mommy and daddy aren't around. The guardian angel is a comforting and versatile concept, and is the basis for many myths. Much entertainment in books, films and television programs is based on the concept of the guardian angel, often transformed into a superhuman master of occult powers.

Traditional religionists are not the only ones who love angels. New Age mythmakers have made an industry out of angels. Dozens of books connecting angels with everything from guidance in daily life to talking to the dead to psychic healing are published every year. Sales of angel figurines and other material products are brisk. As one lofty soul put it: "Gently guided by angels, we nurture and cherish the creative soul that heals itself."

http://www.skepdic.com/angels.html

Unfortunately, we pollute childrens thinking so early with religious indoctrination. Richard Dawkins says it best when he argues that there is no christian or muslim or jewish child, there are only children being indoctrinated into those religions by their parents. If you are told there are beings like angels, gods, and devils, it is hard to snap out of that mindset. It would be so much better for kids if they could be brought up secularly until a certain age (say 16 or so) and then offered a choice of religious beliefs. That way they would at least have a true choice.

Belief in supernatural spirits might be comforting, but it's harmful to society as a whole. And the concept of a guardian angel is especially ridiculous when you consider the number of people who are injured or killed every day. Is it too much to ask that people act like adults and take responsibility for their own lives, without relying on imaginary friends? Apparently it is.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/therese-borchard/do-you-believe-in-angels_b_204217.html

If you know someone who is skeptical about angels, do not waste time and energy in persuading them of something they are not ready to believe. Angels have far more effective ways of drawing their presence to their attention. A friend of mine, Ann, went for a walk with a skeptical friend. When Ann talked to her about angels, she laughed sarcastically. Ann quietly mentioned that their symbol was a little white feather, which they would produce to remind you they really are there.They paused at the end of a path and leaned against a gate to admire the view. Out of nowhere a small white feather dropped from a clear blue sky and landed gently in her friend???s upturned hand. Ann told me that her friend???s eyes shone with wonder as she looked at it.

http://www.findhornpress.com/pages/angel-delight-angel-signals-pv-c0-85.html

In no way have my views been altered, as I still am a skeptic and will be this way until I have witnessed something with my own eyes. When I spoke to you on the phone, you asked me why I was a skeptic and that could be from upbringing or it could be from something that has happened recently. During my upbringing, I believed in the monster under the bed or that there was a ghost in the closet, but as I got older, I got into a mindset that there was no such thing. I guess I have watched one too many movies and convinced myself that it is all fake. Smile

As for recently, if there are angels, why are there so many deaths, so many innocent children or young people who die, but yet an 80 yr old angry man who hates the world lives with an oxygen lead? Is earth the punishment? I find it hard to believe that god has sent guardian angels to watch over us and we still die. When my daughter was 9 she lost her grandfather and my husband lost his father and I lost my "father", he always told me that he was more of a father to me than my own, and I believe that, but what really led me to doubt everything, was that a good man, who had done no harm, died and there was no reason for it. Why did he have to die and there are so many murderers or people who molest children out there in this world that we could live without? Some say the good die young, well in his case, this was true, but that he died young for a purpose, "no".

As for my view on demons, again skeptical, to me people are "evil" in my opinion and that is what society has based on being a demon. There are so many people in the world who try to do the right thing and are led down a path that they, in their own mind feel is right, but to others may be wrong. I'm not saying that murderers are right in what they do, I am saying in their mind they may think it is right when in actuality the public views them as being possessed or demonic. Bull....... they have mental problems. I read that Jesus may have made up demons as a description for mental problems. Who knows what the truth is and who knows if Angels and Demons are just a figment of our imaginations?

In conclusion, I am not saying I do not believe and I am not saying that I do believe, but for me to go one way or the other, I would need definite proof to change my views.

Paulybadboy

BRAVO AMANDA!

Now that wasn't that bad now was it?

good job.
_________________
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Hateva · Private Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Posts: 212 Location: Fort Myers

I am approaching this assignment in a non-denominational way.
First, I do believe in the higher power that I choose to call God. I have studied many different religions and now that I am out of college most of them are a mish-mash of beliefs that are stuck like glue to my brain and sometimes get mixed up. There is a God. There is only one God. Call his children Jesus the Christ, Buddha, Mohammed or Krishna. The teachings of all these great men are virtually the same, but they just teach in a different way. I was raised in a Christian environment therefore Jesus the son of God, is the one I worship and is my savior.

How many times have you said to someone, â€œThanks, youâ€™re an angel?â€ Iâ€™ve said it to strangers who have gone out of there way to help me. They appear out of the blue to give needed information or to help me out of a predicament and then they are gone. Some were literally lifesavers and I wouldnâ€™t be here without them. I also believe that we are often in the company of angels and we are judged by how we treat them.

Forgive me, for I digress and I apologize if I have offended anyone in the group regarding my beliefs.

I have had no less than five separate experiences when I have seen angels and they have come to my aid. I will tell you about three of them. The first time was when I was nine years old and an angel sat on my bed in the middle of the night. I was awake and frightened. She reassured me and told me to â€œGo back to sleep little one. Things are about to change and you will not have to worry about being safe anymore.â€ The next morning I asked mom if she had been sitting on my bed during the night. She denied it. I said,â€ then it must have been an angel.â€ Things did change two days later. My mother left my father who was a very violent and mean alcoholic. The angel was right. I was no longer afraid.

When I was twenty-two I was in a terrible car accident. I was out of my body watching everything. I had no emotion one way or the other. I wasnâ€™t alone. I had an angel (spirit guide) on either side of me. When the ambulance pulled up and a paramedic got out of the ambulance, I said â€œWell I donâ€™t know what has happened here but everything will be alright now. I opened my eyes and looking at me was the same paramedic that I had just seen. Until I was safe, the angels had stayed with me. They looked just like you and me except they were expressionless.

The last time I saw my angels (spirit guides) was about eighteen months ago. I was in the hospital and I wound up with blood clots to both of my lungs (pulmonary emboli) and I died. They were the last thing that I saw. Seated at the foot of my bed, as though they had pulled up chairs to watch, were two ordinary looking women with absolutely no expression on their face. I said to them, â€œIâ€™m having trouble breathing.â€ I could hear what I said to them, but my lips werenâ€™t moving. I woke up three days later on a ventilator.

Well it is safe to say that I believe in angels. â€œThe Encyclopedic Psychic Dictionary,â€ by June G. Bletzer, Phd, has an enormous amount of information on angels. Here is her list on the Angel Hierarchy.

A ranking of highly evolved etheric world soul-minds. 1. Grouped into nine orders or choirs; starting at the bottom, moving upward: seraphim, cherubim, thrones, dominations-dominions, virtues, powers, principalities, archangels, and angel princes.
2. The first five initiations of purification are taken in a physical life; the fifth (Mastership) is worked through in either the etheric world or on earth; the sixth (Lordship) and the seventh (Godship) are earned in the etheric world.

3. Celestial orders: (first) angels of nature, (second) builders of form, (third) angels of inspiration; (fourth) angels of love, guardian angels, healing angels, religious angels, and song angels; (fifth) angels of birth and death.

You can find additional information at: http://angelsghosts.com
.

Well that about wraps up, with the â€œorder of the angelsâ€ now I have to deal with the demons. Thankfully I will have to say that I havenâ€™t seen a demon in real life. I saw an animal being, walking on his hind legs and who was very, very curious about what was going on in a meditation group that I attended. It never showed an ugly side. It simply walked around the room looking at different things. It kept trying to poke his nose in to see what was going on in the circle but our circle was highly protected by our angels or â€œspirit guides.â€ The term angels and spirit guides are used interchangeably these days. I donâ€™t believe that this animal was demonic. I think he came from the elemental level.

My only experience with a demon or perhaps it was just and evil spirit was at night when I slept. I was only overpowered on one occasion and this was it. It is said that if you are attacked by an entity while you sleep you should fight with all of your might and so I did. I had a friend and psychic teacher who said that if I ever got into trouble; that I should call her name and she would be there. She has since passed over to the other side. However this happened while she was still alive.

In my dream I was in a parking lot of an apartment building. I could feel something around me but could not see who or what it was and I felt uneasy. I went into an apartment and a man was standing in the corner. He was dressed nicely and if I had seen him on the street; I would have been impressed. I started to say hello when I looked at a table next to me. There were tarot cards laid out in a spread. (I have no idea which cards they were.) I looked at him and then looked at the cards and said to him in a powerful voice, NOWâ€¦.I KNOW WHO YOU ARE! He lunged across the room, causing me to fall back on the table. I fought hard but he had me by the throat and I knew I was going to lose this one. I screamed out Annaâ€™s name! Within an instant the demon disappeared. I immediately woke up.

Now the interesting thing is, another friend of mine who is also a nurse had a dream that was similar and she dreamt it on the same night. She was dreaming that she was in a parking lot of an apartment building. She said she kept feeling as though she was being followed. The parking lot was packed with cars and she felt something moving in between them. All of a sudden a well dressed man stood in front of her. She opened her mouth to say something but he lunged for her throat. She fought as hard as she could but he over powered her. She told me that she screamed, â€œDottie, help me.â€ Then she immediately woke up. Strange that it happened to both of us on the same night. Was it a demon? I donâ€™t know but when I have had to fight entities in the past I usually won the fight. I donâ€™t think that I would have won this one.

In the same dictionary as I stated above, I looked up the word â€œdemonologistâ€ and was surprised by what I found.

Demonologist: One who investigates and researches haunted houses; records and
examines cases for study with the objective being, to find some answers to the
the reasons for poltergeist and ghost activity.

It seems that every country has names for demons and how they originated. I found a link that goes into great detail and if you get a chance you may want to check it out. It is
http://demons.monstrous.com/demonic_encyclo.htm .

Who or what are Demons: Some view demons as simply the personification of evil; hence, they are not entities. However, in the above passage it is apparent demons were (are) entities. It was a common belief among the Jews of the First Century that demons were the spirits of the wicked that entered into men. Some early beliefs relative to demons have continued until this present day. Some believe demons were (are) the offspring of angels marrying women; others contend that demons are the disembodied spirits of the inhabitants of a pre-Adamic earth; and some maintain angels are fallen angels (Gen. 6: 4; 2 Pet. 2: 4). Regarding the first three views, there is no scriptural evidence. In fact, the scriptures will not allow such explanations as being even plausible. Concerning the fourth view, it is highly likely that demons are fallen angels who were allowed to work their deeds during a special period (2 Pet. 2: 4, Jude 6).
It should be understood that while demons and the devil are associated, demons and the devil are separate and distinct entities. It is unfortunate that some Translations will render "demons" (Gk. diamon) "devils" (see King James in James 2: 19, it should be rendered "demonsâ€). For more definition and clarification, please consider the observations of lexicographer W. E. Vine:
http://www.bibletruths.net/Archives/BTAR134.htm
I personally do not believe in demons as depicted in movies or what we are taught in Sunday school. Look at the evil that goes on in our world today. If there are demons then human beings are it. People are raped, maimed, tortured and killed in the name of God. The demons are, as George Bush would say, the EVIL DOERS.

I look at this world and wonder what has happened. I have lived in Florida for 54 years. We didnâ€™t have this kind of corruption when I was young. I guess the evil doers could always pass the buck and say, â€œThe devil made me do it.â€

I am sure that some of you saw the movie, â€œWhat Dreams May Come,â€ with Robin Williams. That movie only touched the surface on the after life. If you read the book it will open your eyes. The authorâ€™s bibliography was extensive. He had well over sixty-five books that he used in his research. In the book he talks about the upper realms of the afterlife and the lower, darker realms. It is a very inspiring book by Richard Matheson.
A synopsis of the book can be found at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Dreams_May_Come

I believe that angels and demons exist but my opinion is the same as the author of the book. People of earth are as demonic as Satan himself. If fact who could have been more demonic than Hitler. He was the epitome of Satan.

I do hope that I have not offended anyone with my views.

hwingate · Private Joined: 24 Sep 2009 Posts: 202 Location: Cape Coral

During this assignment I have found some new and interesting ideas regarding other points of view on Angels and Demons, such as the argument of whether or not angels or demons have ever been humans. It is of my belief that my own opinions on the subject matter are built through religious and non religious points of view.
May I start by saying that I do believe in angels and demons. I do not take the belief that angels or demons were ever human. I do believe them to be energies that influence human free will. Speaking of free will, do angels and demons have that? I believe that they do.
I found the following site most helpful due to the light humor used in descriptions (www.crystalinks.com/angels.html). Did you know that Angel means messenger? I did not. I was raised in the Lutheran church (Good Shepherd Lutheran Church), which is very similar to the Catholic religion. I remember scripture speaking of angels, but only remember one mention of demons. My own personal belief has always been that angels are out there, and I do not think any of us are able to see them. The site mentioned above discusses angels by comparing them to Spirit Guides. I had never thought of that comparison before. It brought to light an interesting topic for me in that the website mentions the belief that Angels come to us with an emotion of unconditional love. I am not quite on board with that sentiment. I do believe angels mean us well, but I wouldnâ€™t necessarily say they have unconditional love for us. Maybe they do love us, but I believe that this is out of favor to the higher power.
The majority of my life I have been surrounded by people who only believe in heaven and hell and do not accept any other point of view. I have always taken a different path than the people around me. My views on this subject are as well from a different train of thought. I do believe in heaven and hell, but I also take the opinion that sometimes people donâ€™t really go anywhere. Maybe they loved a place so much that they choose not to leave, or maybe something is keeping them there. Either way, I do not think that heaven or hell is our only option upon death.
There are very many points in scriptures that state demons are or once were angels of God. It is also stated that they chose to sin (http://www.logoschristian.org/demon.html). These points drive me to believe that angels and demons are the same types of beings, but that demons made poor choices. This is why I believe that angels and demons have free will. My beliefs are that both angels and demons can be good or evil. The characters from television show Supernatural are most closely related to my beliefs on the behaviors and motives of angels and demons.
I believe that angels and demons are constantly trying to influence our free will one way or another. Sometimes demons win and sometimes angels do. I do not believe in the saying that someone was born â€œbadâ€ or evil, but I do believe that somewhere in the course of our life demons could win with temptations.
My own personal experience with this began when I was 13. I was rapidly heading down a very dark path with my choices, and it was at this time that I met our new Pastor, Pastor Pat Riddle. It is my belief to this day that he was sent by angels to lift me from a very dark place. He left our parish during a time when I was gaining a whole different group of friends. Do not get me wrong, I do not believe that he was an angel, but rather guided to me by angels.
In conclusion, neither angels nor demons have ever been human, and I do not believe either to be perfect. I do believe that on some level they can and do influence our choices (free will). I believe that angels and demons alike have their own free will. My beliefs on this subject matter has not necessarily been changed by this project, but rather supplemented with new insights and opinions. I was not familiar with the many hierarchies believed to be held by angels and demons, nor was I aware of many of the names. I am a spiritual person, but I would not necessarily call myself religious.

References: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon, www.djmcadam.com/demons.htm, www.crystalinks.com/angels.html, and http://www.logoschristian.org/demon.html.

genetic · Private Joined: 08 Sep 2009 Posts: 64 Location: Cape Coral

I do believe there are such things as angels and demons. I am Catholic however my views are not totally based on religion. I feel that angels are â€˜goodâ€™ spirits; they donâ€™t have to be created by God. They can be â€˜goodâ€™ spirits from the deceased that can help guide lost souls, or looking after humans as guardian angels. I believe I had one experience with an angel, not directly but more of a message from one. It was the evening my grandfather left this earth. I was in 8th grade. When my mother got a call from family that my grandfather was rushed to the hospital. I didnâ€™t know about the phone call, I was sleeping at the time. I remember not being able to sleep well that night. I was tossing and turning, I wasnâ€™t at peace like I normally am when I sleep. I had visions of my grandfather in distress, I wasnâ€™t sure if I was dreaming because it seemed so real. I was really close with my grandfather so this freaked me out. Having these visions woke me up and I was scared. I was still very tired so I attempted to fall back to sleep. I was in the state between sleep and being awake as I felt calmness overcome me. I remember that â€˜someoneâ€™ told me my grandfather was okay and safe. It wasnâ€™t like an angel materialized in front of me. It was more a mental message. Once my mother came home from the hospital, woke up the family and told us our grandpa was no longer with us. Yes, I felt depressed for our loss but I remembered my grandfather was okay and safe. I feel the mental message I received that night was an angel communicating with me to calm me down and tell me everything was ok. Once a few days past, as I was sleeping I had this vivid dream of my grandfather. We were having a full conversation in Italian. He told me he was okay and safe and he is happy even though he misses us.
Here are the two websites I found and read through. http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/200questions/article_19.aspx and http://demons.monstrous.com/angels_and_demons.htm
They really didnâ€™t sway me to more of the religious side of angels and demons. Demons, I feel are evil spirits. They try to sway us to do evil or bad things. If humans do evil it gives more power to demons. On the flip side, when humans do â€˜goodâ€™ in this world it weakens the demons and give more power to angels. I think of it as matter vs. anti matter, or yin and yang. Without one the other canâ€™t exist. There are a times that one overpowers the other but both must always be.
This assignment didnâ€™t alter my point of view, it just made me think and reflect on my ideas of this matter. I know angels and demons exist. I just donâ€™t know to what point. I feel humans are in the middle of angels and demons. It seems there is a constant battle between the two and whoever can sway the most humans to their side wins. However we as humans always have a choice. I cant stand when someone says the â€˜devilâ€™ made me do it; thatâ€™s just a copout. Maybe I watch too many movies about angels and demons! I did enjoy doing this assignment. I havenâ€™t put much thought to this subject since my grandfather left us. Its always god to be reminded of the past.
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~~~~~ Go Easy ~~~~~

renagade1101

My thoughts about Angels and Demons is that they exist. Why do I feel that way? Many reasons and feelings as well lead to this belief. I've been raised a catholic and I do believe,

The bible says there are angels and there are demons. I do believe in the bible, so then I must believe. Human beings are, so far as we know, the only creatures in the material world possessing free will. But we are taught that God also created spiritual beings without bodies, who like us possess free will and who are called angels. We know this by revelation only...

The angels were created beings (Col.1.16) and therefore finite, and they were created good (Gen.1.31). Their work is to be the messengers of God (Luke 1.26; Heb.1.14; etc.), to guard His children (Matt.18.10, which is the basis of the belief in guardian angels, cf. Dan.10.21), and to fight against evil angels (Rev.12.7). Among their duties are to bear the souls of the faithful to their rest (Luke 16.22) and the prayers of the Church to heaven (Rev.8.3). They are witnesses of the conduct of men (I Cor.4.9) and of the judgment (Matt.25.31; Luke 12.8), which they also execute (Matt.13.39, 49; 16.27; 24.31; II Thess.1.7). They came to the help of our Lord in time of trouble (Matt.4.11; Luke 22.43, but the latter passage may be a later addition), and to the help of His servants (Acts 5.19; 8.26; 12.7).

as for demons i truly belive that they are here for bad evil and hate and to stere you in the wrong direction so you wind up in hell as for the ghosts and paranormal they are stuck spirits im pergerty that are reaching out to us to cross over some are here to hurt us and scare us and others good

conclusion
angels are the messengers of god and we all have guardian angels
demons and the spirit of the devil are wicked they will work against the lord and want to do bad things but the lord and your guardian angles will always be there to help you make the right decission as i always new the difference between the devil and ny god and angels and demons but we are faced with these problems every day

this assignemt was fun and interesting and didnt change my openion on anything
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renagade1101